What is the future of unions? Interview with Winnie Ng

Winnie Ng is the CAW-Sam Gindin Chair at Ryerson University.

Winnie Ng by FTGU

Q: What surprised or struck you in the CAW-CEP's paper, A Moment of Truth?

WN: The paper confirms the trend. Corporations merge and so should the unions. Having that gathering of strength and strategy is a positive signal for the labour movement and overall the workers movement.

What was surprising is the timing. It might signal in terms of the broader economic and political context that people within the labour movement are recognizing the writing on the wall, that unless we make some drastic changes, it’s a race to bottom and you can't do the same old, same old all the time.

With the recession and the austerity agenda, the two largest private sector unions are taking the lead in coming together in moving some of these initiatives forward. It takes certain courage to have the political will to say, "It's now or never."

Q: What do you feel was missing in the paper?

WN: It would have been important to include a much stronger focus on the inclusion or the equity agenda. If we are going to drastically be looking inward and be reflexive on how we have done things, then take a look at the demographic shifts within the Canadian population.

There is no 'one-size-fits-all' type of union organizing strategy or bargaining strategy. Having full respect for those who are involved in the this merger initiative, we need to recognize the divide and rule tactics that are being used by right-wing populists like Rob Ford; that whole perception out there is that anyone who is in a union and has contract protections action is on the gravy train. We should be asking why shouldn't we have the audacity to ask for decent jobs for all. In underscoring the 'for all', how would a labour renewal strategy include a cornerstone platform on reaching out to those who have been marginalized and further marginalized because they belong to one of the equity seeking groups?

There's recognition that the nature of work has changed, but in terms of the organizing strategy we are still assuming that workers are a homogeneous group. That's the discrepancy. This is only a very preliminary paper, so I'm hoping that there will be more substanstive and more in depth searching questions and discussions on a new vision for a union.

Q: How can unions be more inclusive? 

If you look at the history of the movement from the early days to now, things changed and things improved because the workers were protesting out on the street to the point that - May Day, Haymarket - people died for it. You see the same thing happening in the global south in China, India and elsewhere. As we speak there are 10 million Indian workers that are out on strike against the austerity agenda.

Within the movement here, we become much more at ease in trying to seek legislative change and working within the framework of bargaining in good faith. When actually with the Caterpillar closure, you recognize that employers and the corporate sector - the worst of them - never bargain in good faith. They will try whatever to maximize profits and instill fear in workers. We need to be much more cognizant of the broader corporate agenda along with the political legislative agenda and those two pieces are not there as friends of workers.

I'm by no means knocking down all the gains we have made. But how do we work within the legislative framework, at the same time push for more advocacy and push for more changes? For workers that are doing precarious work or temp work - the right to organize is something that is a privilege - they don’t have access to that right to enjoy. How do we make sure that that we push the frame so that there would be more sectoral organizing, or creatively how do we do some pre-organizing?

There’s some good examples. The Steelworkers are now working with taxi drivers, getting them organized as associate members. At least there’s some representation, some collective pooling of resources. CUPE reached out to domestic caregivers. These are examples where you sometimes see the spark. I'm hoping that it will take shape and take root in a deeper and profound way.

At Ryerson, I met students who wake up a 5’o clock in the morning waiting for the temp agency to call so they can work as day labourers. They get assigned to different work places on a day to day depending on the availability of work. Our pool of –the ones that we could organize - is so much larger than the confinement of organizing workplace by workplace. A lot of times smaller workplaces can’t even get a union organizer to come and take a look. It’s too small. It’s not cost-effective or viable. This is where legislation has impeded how workers can mobilize in a union or organize together.

Q: What ways can unions be more relevant to workers who are not unionized?

WN: It is going back to the basics of doing more grassroots neighbourhood organizing, like some of the initatives that have been taken against Ford. There could be a whole lot more linkages between unionized workers within the same neighbourhood or within the same apartment building with other non-unionized. Unless we can break the mold of 'oh I am this and this is my only identity', we are going to be missing the opportunities of bridge building.

With the last recession in 2008-9, in the manufacturing sector in Ontario in particular, there was a loss of a lot of good workers of colour and, women workers, who due to seniority are the first to go. These are the ones who have strong support for the movement, but now they’re out in non-unionized workplaces or for some, not being able to find secure work.

To me that’s the other piece. Just because I lose my job doesn’t mean I have to lose my union. How do we reach out to those who have lost their membership card as a result of job losses? How do we engage workers of colour in the community in the way that they become the leaders in the community? It’s creating those spheres of organizing moments where people can build genuine relationships. That’s where change will happen.

For temp workers, if we could have a benefit package, some sort of support where they could seek help, or some kind of associate union membership, that would help. The Worker’s Action Centre is doing some of that organizing. I think that there’s a whole lot more education that can be done. For example, in many unionized workplaces in Ontario, under the Ministry of Colleges, Training and Universities you get some support along with the employers. You also have action centres for laid off workers. (ie. CAW Local 1520 Ford Action Centre) How about extending that service to the non-unionized workers who are also looking for work, without taking away from front-line community agencies? It becomes another gathering point for workers regardless if they are union or non union. How can we be creative and militant at the same time?

I don't take the word militant lightly. Yes, there’s a lot of good work that we have done. As a labour movement, we walk on the shoulders of others who have gone before us. How do we make sure that whatever we’re doing is improving the working life for the next generation; the younger people to come?

There are so many stereotypes and myths and anti-union rhetoric out there. The labour movement can't afford to be insular and keep doing what we’re doing in a safe comfort zone. Militancy requires us to take some risk, take some strong and visible role in advocacy and at the same time having that humility in saying that we don't know everything - taking away some of that ego so we can challenge each other in a way so that the movement can move forward together.

Q: What other models are there in the global south that we can use here?

WN: I think there’s a lot of creativity when people have very limited resources. The creativity comes from that sense of courage because they have nothing to lose. I don't know whether we are at that point yet in our Canadian labour movement. There’s also that sense that this great union in the global north has so much to offer the global south, when actually there’s a whole lot more we can learn from the south - how they can do so much for so little.

If you take a look at the Korean trade union movement, they have a whole unions, called equity unions, organized around migrant workers within the larger KPU. It’s that type of initiative that sends a very strong signal both to the national union and internationally that they’re not going to be part of an underground economy. Devote the resources and organize. There needs to be a much more proactive leadership. Rather than depending on one particular union, it can become a national labour project.

You can’t turn a blind eye on the growing trend of migrant workers. We are quick to act when there’s disaster -the recent tragedy of the 11 migrant workers; the death of migrant workers in construction sites. Then things get back to normal. It's not good enough to raise money for the family of the deceased. That eases our guilt, but it doesn’t mobilize and push for change. I think in that sense we can be a whole lot more creative. We have never done a proper discussion and consultation of just listening to the marginalized, to the vulnerable workers within our orbit, to see what needs to be changed and how we can be partners in that endeavour. To me, those are the key pieces that I'm hoping the merger initiative will open up for discussion without people feeling defensive or people feeling that their egos are getting bruised


Q: What are the same things that can give us hope for the future of the labour movement?

As an organizer, I will always  be an eternal optimist. I look at things as half full. What motivates an activist is the sense of recognizing that things can be better.

A student in my class told me she is working in a supermarket where they put on an anti-union video and they made sure every new employee watches this video. So she started a petition to stop this at the risk of losing her job. It's those small acts of defiance where you can't help but be inspired.

The Ming Pao strike - people always underestimate immigrant workers. They always write them off assuming that they are too complicated to organize. But they came out as an open organizing committee and went on strike for over 73 days. To me, those are inspiring moments that show the labour movement that there are a lot of workers waiting for us out there. There's no perfect union and there's no perfect structure. Part of the challenge, and maybe part of the journey, is we just need to keep trying and willing to take the risks in reaching out and doing things. It's okay to trip and fall, but at least we are trying to walk instead of remaining safe in our seats.